Night Shift

[Appleblossom]

@Terry I also had a good time in the UK when I was 21.  I worked there for a while and they were not as sexist as our blokes... as a vague generalisation ... there are exceptions to every rule.

Most people have difficulties with being in groups as everyone's "belonging" sense is triggered. 

Earlier this month a psychologist policy maker in Canberra confessed to me she had difficulties in groups which is why we both opted for a non dorm room in my music course in NSW.  She tested the waters out to see if we could be "partners in crime" her words. Then she said in a chatty tone about me doing music with a bad neck "Your mad" to which I promptly replied "Yes of course .. I am the daughter of 2 schizophrenics and married one."  Poor lady ... all she wanted to do was sleep ... it was out of my mouth in as chatty a tone as her openers.  We settled it by having single rooms next door and being chatty throughout the course but not too close.  I actually probably need the single for my neck but it seemed too big a spend. I felt ok in being authentic, and she had a very gentle persona which I need as too much carry on puts my neck out.  She also knew a lot about Forgotten Australians in a theoritcal manner as her friend was working on it in Canberra ... so she got to meet one irl.

In my late 20s after Pol Sci degree, I did a lot of group theory and practise in Psychodrama. It helps not take others' issues as personally as I used to.  I introjected everything ... was introverted and painfully shy.

@Former-Member's take on the guy in bible study is spot on ..

@Terry its up to you what you do .. but if you like the group generally and that one incident got up your nose ... it could be worth it to stay ...

there is the norm storm perform elements in groups.  He might not realise how much it effected all your other feelings and interactions ... which sounds perfectly reasonable to me ... and others may be conscious or unconsciously effected too ... maybe you can broach it gently with him one to one... rather than letting it build up inside you. 

I am a bit naughty now ... and feel "god" wants me to improve some of his little groups on earth ..or why did he make me this bloody way ... though I also am bereft when I spit out more than nice good manners ... but I have been known to tell it straight in my very polite respectable church choir ... the conductors dont refer to the females as old chooks anymore . ..

The Moreno Institute has great ideas but the founder was as paranoid as hell.  We are all just peeple.

[Mazarita]

Sorry I disappeared from busy 'Bourke Street' chats suddenly. Had to nap after only a few hours sleep last night and a headache.

@Terry, hope getting out was good for you, usually helps me too, though I have gone very long periods without leaving the flat in the past. These days I try for at least one trip out a day. Still don't always make it but I am a work in progress coming out of the recent big withdrawal phase of my life. No worries if you are not interested in tomorrow's session. I am just interested to hear a range of views on this subject, especially here on the forum where people understand better those of us who do not work at this time and our various reasons for it. It's pretty much always because of mental ill health in one way or another from what I've read on this forum, as is the case with me.

@Appleblossom, I understand what you are saying about people accepting you completely, trauma and all. Main reason for me not continuing to talk about it too much just now is that I have told it many times before in my real life and on the forum too and don't want to keep reinforcing my bad feelings about it to the end. Lately I've been remembering more of the happier times, which is really a great feeling. By the way, I don't think you 'should' do anything in regards paid employment. I see you as very productive, as a carer for your son, music teacher, creative practitioner (something that is most often 'voluntary') and as a community guide here, among other things. It's great to hear too that you are building up your circle of friends and acquaintances.

[Terry]

@Mazarita Hi. Credible studies have shown that nearly all human beings have a work ethic.  I find that it's only discrimination that keeps me out of the workforce.  I can do the work (ok, i might have a little more absenteeism and have to find a job with a little less pressure, or somesuch) but discrimination makes it untenable - I CANNOT work long-term with all my colleagues hostile to me.  In any job (even volunteer ones, sadly, actually) it tends to be a matter of time before i have to leave due to discrimination.

[Mazarita]

@Terry, I have heard you loud and clear on why you are down on the workforce, and I have very similar feelings, though for slightly different reasons. Still, I reckon it's great that we are both now in the process of applying for half a day a week volunteering to alleviate our social isolation and contribute in a meaningful way. I'm taking it very gently with the hours at this time because I have been out of any structured employment for years. I'm hoping that keeping the hours minimal, at least to start with, may also give me time to get gently accustomed and integrated into the group dynamic with other workers. 'Fitting in' has also been a major obstacle for me since childhood. Best wishes to you on having a much better experience this time round and thanks again for inspiring me to take some steps towards volunteering at this time. It was something I had in my longer term plans but you have prompted some immediate action on it just at the right time I think. 

[Terry]

@MazaritaThanks!  Well, you inspired me too!  i have done soooo much volunteer work over the years (and usually get a drubbing for it too, incredibly) and i'm hanging out for a workplace but not wanting another drubbing!  anyway, if they want to give me a drubbing they can only do so for four hours a week (i got the job!) and if they want to be nice to me then i will up my hours!  i might go and work for an aboriginal organisation, actually - i support aboriginal causes and i'm sure they're nicer to their volunteers!  :0

[Terry]

@NikNik - i know i have inadequate manners but a discussion thread called 'why work?' - shouldn't it be called 'how work'?  is there some sort of inherent belief at SANE that people with mental illnesses don't want to work?  does SANE think that we are all lazy people or does SANE realise that we are all different people and that the vast majority of HUMAN BEINGS want to work?  Does sane realise that we have disabilities and only an utterly awful mental health system to turn to and that workplace discrimination is shocking?  sorry, i realise the preceding sounds a little tactless but so is sane's apparent belief that we sit around twiddling our thumbs wondering if we feel like getting off the lounge!  ok, so i put off writing my books (one is written already, actually, it just needs to be compiled or 'curated').  i hung in there with the workforce for 20+ years before i gave up on the little dears.  yes, once you're unemployed with a disability and only have stigma and discrimination and a useless health system to turn to you can start to lack motivation, but stil, sane (and, again, i'm sorry, as I know i've been a bit tactless in this post), a generaly thread topic called 'WHY work?' is a bit much.  i actually think others will probably agree.  I got tired of quite severe discrimination when I was in the workforce and now that i'm out of the workforce (workforce proper, that is), i get tired of being called lazy - it can all be crushing actually.  'Undeclared' to you all, I have actually written about six articles this year and done a heap of outreach work too.  Anyway, that's my 2c worth.

[NikNik]

Hi @Terry

I'm not sure this is the most relevant thread to have this conversation, so if you wish to continue it, you may want to start a new discussion.

I'm sorry if you were offended by the title. "Why work?" is an honest question. As you can see in the description and in the discussion thread It's a discussion that looks at both sides of the coin. 

It's not a discussion to persuade anyone either way - it's for people to ask the questions and to be equipped with different perspectives and knowledge to make their own decision based on what is best for them.

SANE not only feels the opposite to what you have stated, but it wants to prevent or reduce exactly what you have described. So much so that we run a program called Mindful Employer , which is a workplace mental health training program. The aims are to help people to:

• Understand stigma towards mental illness and impacts of stigma in the workplace.
• Increased awareness and understanding of mental illness, including signs and symptoms.
• Skills and confidence to take appropriate early intervention actions if they are concerned about a person in the workplace eg. how to ask ‘Are you okay?’
• Improved awareness of supports available to workplaces, managers and employees in the workplace.
• Know the key principles for managing an employee who is living with a mental illness.

One of our most recently produced videos is around return to work. 

I hope you check it out- it's pretty inspiring.

Finally, SANE collaborates with a variety of workplace and employment organisations, as we know the importance of the topic. Ostara Australia, who is running the session on Friday, is one good example. We are very appreciative that they share their expertise and knowledge through these Career Chats.

I hope this helps clarify SANE's position on these matters.

Nik

[Terry]

@NikNik yes, sorry, my previous post was undiplomatic.  that IS an inspiring video.  i suppose at my age (WELL into middle-age) i have seen so much discrimination that i won't go back for more (although my attitude to workplaces suffered after about 13 of workplace discrimination and bullying and i kept trying to work after that with a 'bad attitude', which probably didn't help).  actually, i suspect i will return to paid work AFTER I'VE WON THE PULITZER PRIZE!  Good luck job-hunting-and-holding, everyone and say a quick prayer for my new Mazarita-inspired job starting monday!  Thank you!  god bless 🙂

[Terry]

@NikNik i must admit 'though, i still find 'why work?' a funny title for the forum.  nearly all human beings have a work ethic and don't have to question whether they WANT to work or not.  If one has a mental illness, one is usually more concerned with HOW to get and hold a job.  Of course, over time, repeated workplace discrimination and being on the DSP constantly or over and over again does become de-motivating, but that's a whole other topic.  That topic might be called 'How to keep motivated, busy and/or make a worklife that suits your situation'.  Anyway, i'll butt out now and see what everyone has to say.  i'm sure i'll learn something and get some tips.  cheers 🙂

[Appleblossom]

Thank you @Mazarita

Like @Terry I try to stay productive. I probably am over polite and overly harmonious and into team building ... I have decided to bat back any put downs or drubbings more immediately, rather than accumulate insults and have a big blow up.  It has taken until the last few years to be able to pick up insults and deal with them in the moment ... mostly I let them through to the keeper ... it still takes a lot of reflection ... I try to match the tone or energy to the level of insult ... it works some of the time ... people are often not that nice and yet we still need to work alongside them. Some people dont realise .. some people dont want to change.

These days I talk about different economies ... had a fantastic conversation with a tertiary teacher of actuarial studies while on my music workshop trip.  He tended to agree with me that there are a lot of positives or social goods that are difficult to measure ... just gotta keep putting the word out.

Inspiring video about the engineer and author Greg Rawls @NikNik.

Sometimes I say I do paid and unpaid work and have a good lifestyle now ... but I find that there are certain personalities deeply invested in "the dollar" who seem desperate to prove me wrong ... I am learning not to take it so personally ... its taken a while.